Wednesday, December 10, 2014

Oh my, I think, I just meshed all over myself

Ok so here's the deal. I dont understand mesh. I am mesh-challenged. I am asking for your help. Let's have an open discussion on the topic and compare notes. Dispel myths. There is no place (well that i know of) that discusses the pros and cons of the various mesh-makers. Let this be a source of combining what we all know and what we all think we know. So its more important than just giving me a link to a site that talks about mesh. Its important to know we we all feel we know.  

So yes, unless I am reprimanded by the powers that be, I am going to name names. 

UPDATE WARNING: One, maybe more, of the vendors listed below MAY have had a DCMA filed against them according to rumor. Investigate. proceed at your own risk. This can discourage clothing makers from creating clothes for them and may render your purchase at less than optimal expected value.

The Mesh Project, 
Lina Lush,

Names I've heard bandied about often. And feel free to bring up others. This is not intended to be a promotion in disguise but a forum for public discourse on the topic we are all talking about privately. I am sure we will all . And why is mesh important? Well rumor is SL2 will be all mesh. The death to prim bodies and accessories. So whether we like it or not.

I want to understand: More to the point I want to know what your understanding of these questions are? Are we all in agreement. Is what we think we know outdated? So lets play (literally) 20 questions.

  1. What are mesh feet? Resizable. Tintable?
  2. What are mesh hands? Resizable. Tintable?
  3. What is a mesh body? Who makes them with a face? Without a face?
  4. Skin? How do get them? Where? Who makes them for mesh?
  5. Mesh clothes. Hard to get? More/less expensive? How do they associate with mesh bodies and vendors?
  6. Mesh shoes? resize-able? tintable? Accessorize-able? Stockings? Nails?
  7. Appliers. What are they? Pros and cons. Who makes them?
  8. Compare pros and cons and features of the various makers
  9. Is there anything prim that i can use with mesh?
  10. Are mesh bodies adjustable?
  11. Is there such a thing as adjustable mesh shoes?
  12. Is there such a thing as adjustable mesh clothing
  13. Difference between rigged mesh and fitted mesh? Or is there one?
  14. What is materials? Wny do I care?
  15. What are my choices in matching skin tones, coloring clothes, shoes. What, if anything did/will the old fat-pack become? Same? Different?
  16. Is there such a thing as mesh hair or is this a stupid question? I am so clueless.
  17. Some makers have been pulled due to DCMA violations. How is that determined? How can I insure I won'l lose stuff i buy cause the vendor was found out to be in violation of copyright.
  18. Does mesh look good while dancing? Better or worse than prim? Will I look better nude than with prim? Does mesh clothing flow better during dancing? Worse?
  19. What existing problems does mesh address?
  20. What new problems does it create?
And on a side I the only one who buys shoes and shoes and hair and hair but end up wearing the same 2 or 3 hairs and same 1 or 2 pairs of shoes? What is this psychological disorder called?

The Yumster


  1. Whew! That's a lot of questions! Some of them much easier to answer than others. For #19, I think mesh addressed the issues of clothing passing 'through' your avatar, thereby ruining the illusion. So with mesh, no more sitting in a chair and having your dress fall through your legs (and the chair) and into the floor.
    However, regarding #18 - it depends on the outfit. I've used short mesh dresses and they look fine when you dance. Just don't do any fancy moves that reveal the 'alpha' and therefore the missing parts of your avatar. Longer clothes often 'break' or stretch weirdly when you do certain moves, so I've generally avoided mesh when dancing for that reason. Plus, mesh skirts do not 'flare out' when you spin, so flexi is often a better choice, even given the 'pass through' effect.
    #17 - From what I've read, basically someone files a DMCA complaint and you are presumed guilty (and your stuff pulled) until you can prove your innocence. Not a great system, and very subject to abuse. As for the buyer, it's 'caveat emptor' as always.
    #16 - yes there is mesh hair. I'm wearing some right now. :) Again, in some ways it looks more realistic, but it does not 'move' with you like flexi hair. Some prefer flexi for dancing for the more realistic movement.
    And for a bit of shameless self-promotion (:-D) you can read up on my blog, as I've covered some discussions about mesh. Try here first - And if anyone understands appliers, please - enlighten me! Having to have endless appliers for everything seems like it would be such a hassle - not sure if I'm up for that.

  2. I love questionnaires! Which is why my response got so long that I have to break it in two pieces...

    1. Mesh feet are feet made using that flashy 3D modelling thingy known as mesh. Most are resizeable and tintable. Some are not resizeable (known as "rigged mesh"). Not to be confused with 'wire mesh'.

    2. Same as mesh feet (see above) but you're supposed to wear them where your hands are as opposed to where your feet would appear.

    3. It is a body made of mesh (still not wire mesh but that 3D thing). This is false advertising though as most mesh bodies come already decapitated (to save the most brutal of us the trouble?) You mentioned all of the decapitated mesh body creators I know of. Oh, and there's that Wowmeh one too, which got that DCMA thing and is no longer available. Mesh heads are a chapter of their own. I've seen one that even cries real mesh tears. So cute.

    4. I've never understood what people mean by mesh skin. Or does this question refer to skins that are compatible with mesh bodies? In that case it depends. Most big skin producers (a side business for many chicken farmers) are releasing appliers for the most popular mesh bodies, so you can use your favourite skin with that luscious body of yours.

    5. Easy to get as most designers have been concentrating mainly on those for the past couple of years. No real change in price compared to prim/layer clothing. Some earlier mesh clothes can be hard to match with mesh bodies as they do not move the same way (for example, I have pearls that when I turn my head sink into the mesh neck of mine). Some mesh clothes fit the mesh bodies perfectly and you don't even have to make parts of yourself invisible. I am still somewhat unsure whether these magical garments belong to the mesh subspecies known to most as "fitted mesh" or "fitmesh".

    6. I have a funny feeling mesh shoes were the first mesh things to mesh up our heads. So those are pretty wide-spread and popular. Sometimes they come with another person's feet in them, sometimes (especially with those designed for mesh feet and bodies) you get to slip your own feet in them, in which case accessorize-ability is directly dependent on the accessorize-ability of the said mesh body(part). When you buy mesh shoes with someone else's feet in them, the level of accessorize-ability is usually still pretty high (nails, stockings, skin colours), unless it's by some cheap designer.

    7. It's a deep swamp, my friend. There are many things (usually HUDs) known to the bourgeoisie as appliers. There are those that are made (usually by clothing designers themselves with the help of the mesh body part creator?) for some specific mesh thing (such as the "so last season" mesh mammary glands called Lolas) and then there are those appliers that aim to function as umbrella appliers (such as Omega appliers) so that the designers don't have to create appliers for all the different mesh breast brands etc. out there.

    8. I don't wanna! (And my fingers are bleeding already.)

    9. Certainly. If we stay on the outfit area, I could imagine wearing a prim hair bow with mesh hair (given that they fit and move the same way), but when it comes to building, I assume the majority of things are (or at least were) hybrids, consisting of both mesh and prims.

    10. Yes, most of them are fitmesh so when you adjust your body using the SL sliders (as you would adjust your system body), your mesh body changes accordingly. You can even wear physics with the mesh bodies (for those who like to jiggle their jugs.)

  3. 11. Depends on how you determine adjustable. For example those shoes that are made for some certain mesh feet automatically adjust themselves according to the size of the feet. With some other mesh shoes, you can usually adjust at least the size and position of the shoes.

    12. Only different sizes, and the new fitmesh clothes that automatically adjust themselves according to your bodily values.

    13. As fitted mesh (or fitmesh), rigged mesh also latches on to you like a leech, but the difference is that... Actually, I don't know. Oh wait. At least they move differently. Yup. Wear a fitmesh body (as most, if not all, mesh bodies are) with rigged mesh pants and when you walk, your butt can in worst case scenario poke through the pants with every other step you take (every move you make, every vow you break, every smile you fake...) Unless you manage to make your butt invisible, which can be pretty hard with the mesh bodies that have pre-set alpha maps/options so in most cases you end up with either piece of your body showing through the uppermost parts of your mesh pants or a part of your lower back/stomach appear invisible above your pants, thus forming an invisible gap between the torso and pants area - BUT with that much mesh clothing, what's the point of wearing mesh body underneath anymore? Problem solved. You're welcome.

    14. If you have a computer that does not start to sound like a helicopter when you turn your graphics on the higher levels, materials can make your mesh thing look pretty cool as the in-world lights and shadows are reflected on it in much greater detail than most of us are used to. Works especially well with swimwear as the materials tend to make clothing appear as if you were just pushed into the pool.

    15. Most mesh body parts and bodies come with a pretty decent set of tools to match the skin tone. Especially if you count on the big brands. Some shoe makers, genital creators and mouth sellers (etc.) even have services with which you can either have their staff colour your... parts or you can use a web-based skin tone data bank (with the biggest skin creators skin colours stored in them) that will automatically colour your... feet or whatnot. The luckiest you get if you find a mesh body part/body creator that also does skins, so you're guaranteed the perfect match. Wait... it's a marketing scheme!

    16. Yes, there is. Most wigs these days are mesh. Maybe you're wearing one now?

    17. I am under the impression that those people who purchased for example that Wowmeh body before it was pulled from the market still got to keep the body. It's just not available anymore. But I'm not sure. There are all sorts of rumours circulating around those DCMA issues. Most say those are false claims issued by either a troll or a fellow mesh creator who has lost lots of sales after the invasion of mesh bodies. But those are just rumours... I should start a SL tabloid...

    18. I never wear a lot of clothes when dancing. Well, in general I would say it looks better than prims since it moves with your body and not through it. As Kat wrote, it doesn't flow like flexi prims so if you want to dance in a gown or have a long swaying hair then mesh is not for you. But as a show dancer (and a tart), I want people to be able to see the dance moves (expressed usually by the dancer's limbs). So I don't dance dressed in long skirts or dresses. And at least for skimpy outfits mesh is in my experience better. Same goes with hair (I'm not a big fan of flexi hair that looks like you're underwater and when you move pokes through your chest and ends up looking like a long beard.)

    19. What Kat said.

    20. It can cause a lot of lag if it's not well made (or so I've heard). Stripping (yes, I'm a tart) can be tricky if you need to use alpha layers with the mesh piece of clothing. And I'm sure there are other issues too that I can't think of right now.

    I take no responsibility for any false information this reply may entail.

  4. Since this post about mesh is on Dance Queen’s blog I’m going to address mesh from the dance point of view. For SL photography it’s another issue entirely and has many good points.

    I have a top of the line retina Macbook pro, less than a year old, which cost me just under $4000. I also attend a lot of dance performance and I am so tired of the bald, handless and footless, transparent dancers who have worked so hard on their routine but are rezzed for only a part of the audience. I’ve even attended performances where only a dancing bald head has appeared so assume they were wearing a mesh body.

    Another weirdness is that sometimes in a group dance, four out of five dancers wearing identical mesh costumes are rezzed and one is not!

    Mesh hair is almost universal now, although some creators will combine it with flexi prims. I think most of it looks very helmet like and while perfect for photography I don’t think it is so great for dancers. In 7 years I have always worn short or shoulder length hair so not had the issue of hair through the body.

    Long mesh gowns look beautiful for photography but even dancing sedately at Franks or clubs they are not at all attractive and if patterned the pattern can stretch in a very ugly way. Very short ones work very well for dancing. Some creators are making long mesh gowns and adding flexi skirts to overcome this somewhat.

    I do always wear mesh hands and feet but if you wear a lot of different skins matching them with the various appliers is a total pain in the butt. I only wear two skins and I still find it a hassle.

    I do have a Slink mesh body but really don’t use it. I find the skin appliers for it do not have the subtleties of a well made skin. Mesh bodies do have nice boobs and butts and save a lot of liquefying in photo editing but clothing is still a complicated issue as yet. Yes the bodies are liquid mesh so you can use your own shape and adjust using the sliders. Belleza may work better since it comes with a lot of its own skins but I don’t like the Belleza mouth and the body is expensive.

    The mesh heads do not seem so much in favour since everyone likes to have an individual look.

    I think all shoes are mesh these days and I have discarded most of my old ones.

    Am I the only one who buys shoes and shoes and hair and hair but end up wearing the same 2 or 3 hairs and same 1 or 2 pairs of shoes?

    You certainly are not! I have a huge inventory, 110K, but seem to wear the same half dozen outfits and a just a few different hairs and shoes. Unless one is a fashionista with a fashion blog and enjoy putting looks together, most of us just want to get dressed and go do more interesting things.

    Oh and all mesh is not created equal. The more primmy it is the more laggy it is. There have been some interesting discussions on FB about this, with lots of noise from Toysoldier Thor who is a huge advocate of low prim mesh and prides himself on making his mesh low impact. This applies to clothing too!

  5. My knowledge of mesh is limited to mesh clothing and hair. The mesh skin/bodies are new to me, with only having played with demos and talking with other mesh skin/body users.
    The women who have mesh/skin seem to love them and say they would never consider going back to the old (prim) skin/body.
    I will make my remarks on the basis of purchasing a mesh body/skin, which negates or rather doesn't need separate hands, feet, etc, as they are "included" with the body.
    The demos i have tried have either one or several huds which allows for tinting of skin, changing positions of hands, feet, colouring of nipples, nails.
    My overall impression of mesh skin/body is that hands and feet are more lifelike, the contours of the body are smoother, boobs/nipples fuller and more "real". The one that i have used allow me to use my current head with the body/skin, being mesh (i don't need to remove my current skin or body). I can dress with my current mesh clothing and fits much better than my current (prim) body. My body is not partially removed so that the mesh outfit covers my body, instead of leaving annoying blank bits of body when you move around or look down my boobs.This is a blessing. One thing i have noticed is that my ring no longer fits my finger/hand. I'm sure that's a script problem but its annoying and i have no idea how to fix it.

    Now I will try and address some of the individual questions as best i can.

    #9. My understanding is that some mesh bodies can also dress with prims but its not the basic model. What i would call the super model, rather than the basic model (more expensive, of course!!!).

    #10, I understand that body parts are adjustable, but i don't know how that works.

    #11 & 12. No, i don't bevel they can be adjusted.

    #16. yes there is plenty of mesh hair in SL and has been for some time. No, its not adjustable.

    #18. From what i have seen, mesh "sticks" to the contours of the body and therefore doesn't present problems, moving or dancing. Though don't take my word on this.

    #20, Basically we loose the use of prim clothing unless you buy the super duper mesh body and will it be able to dress with ALL prim clothing?

    On a closing note; Nancy's comment appear to cover all or most of the points.