2012/06/16

The Piecemaker: Starting a Dance in the Middle


The Piecemaker: Starting a Dance in the Middle 120616

If you read Yummy's first post, you read about the gift she has for anyone who wants it. Well, I always want anything new in dancing, so today Yummy spent some time with me showing me the Piecemaker and talking about the future of SL dancing.


Here we are talking after I had put on the Piecemaker HUD. It defaults to the lower right of your screen.

The Piecemaker is a prototype for a dance HUD that lets you start a dance in the middle of the dance. It comes as a HUD that gives you a blue menu and an instruction notecard.


Here is our rather long conversation (slightly edited):

[09:30:10] Nottoo Wise: ok i have the blue menu
[09:30:15] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[09:30:23] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): ok you can hit play
[09:30:43] Nottoo Wise: ok the three dances
[09:30:47] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[09:30:56] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): you have a lot of options to fine tune it
[09:31:14] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): but that started "we love you girl" 6 seconds into it
[09:31:57] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): if autonudge is on, it will move the window forward
and repeat based on the increment until It reaches the end
[09:33:04] Nottoo Wise: ok
[09:33:08] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): you can expand or contract the length of the piece
[09:33:11] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): now its 10 seconds
[09:33:14] Nottoo Wise: the time is in whole seconds?
[09:33:16] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): you can expand it to 11
[09:33:26] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes, but you can change the increment to say .5 or .2 or .1
[09:33:34] Nottoo Wise: ok, if its 0.1 sec increments, it will make the transitions better
[09:33:43] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): easier to start with 1 second
[09:34:04] Nottoo Wise: ok
[09:34:16] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): I almost didn't add that but then I figured if I dont, people will ask for it so the increment can be changed in the config card called "*piece
[09:35:12] Nottoo Wise: i see it

*****
(Note: here is the contents of the configuration card
ExternalControllerChannel,-3069
DanceName,weloveyou-girl
DelayTime,5.0
PlayTime,10.0
FinishTime,3.0
DanceLength,28.0
WaitingAnimation,KawaiiDance
FinishPose,Champion!
Increment,1.0

/*DanceName,weloveyou-girl
/*DanceLength,28.0

/*DanceName,weloveyou-boy
/*DanceLength,21.4

*****
[09:35:45] Nottoo Wise: so i use the piece notecard to set the dance names
[09:35:58] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes, for this version
[09:36:13] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): future will let you choose/change dances from menu
[09:36:15] Nottoo Wise: if i put more dances in the hud, i still have to change the notecard
[09:36:30] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes for now. if that is the feature most wanted then I will escalate it for next version
[09:36:33] Nottoo Wise: ok, so dance 1 plays for a specified time and dance 2 is also playing
[09:37:11] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[09:37:18] Nottoo Wise: i would think u start dance 2 first. then keep it going while u start dance 1 and stop dance 1 at the specified time
[09:37:31] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): I do. started in reverse order
[09:37:55] Nottoo Wise: so its like running two huds with the same priority dance
[09:38:07] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): I start the 1st dance to play last then stop
[09:38:15] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes based on priorities
[09:38:18] Nottoo Wise: the last started dance is visible
[09:38:22] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[09:38:26] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): got it. thats the secret to this part
[09:38:35] Nottoo Wise: i thought about using two HUDs to do that
[09:38:37] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): the next part is gluing the pieces together
[09:38:48] Nottoo Wise: yes
[09:39:11] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): it involves very very complex algorithm based on song lengths and delay times and playtimes
[09:39:16] Nottoo Wise: so u could use a barre or huddles to dance then go back to the barre
[09:39:22] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[09:39:23] Nottoo Wise: then activate the yummy piecemaker to get ur desired portion
[09:39:29] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): well theoretically. how the 2 will seque is still fuzzy in my head
[09:39:51] Nottoo Wise: just wear both
[09:39:56] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes with some experimentation it would be doable but lots of experimentation and adjusting. clever matching but my next hud will probably let you sequence
[09:40:33] Nottoo Wise: so this very nicely demonstrates the concept
[09:40:38] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[09:40:44] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): this is the precursor
[09:40:49] Nottoo Wise: which is new and exciting
[09:40:51] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): this will help you
[09:40:52] Nottoo Wise: yes
[09:40:58] Nottoo Wise: may i play with it
[09:41:01] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): create the "dance-segment"
[09:41:03] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes of course
[09:41:06] Nottoo Wise: then put a write up on the blog?
[09:41:06] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): its yours to keep
[09:41:09] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): sure
[09:41:14] Nottoo Wise: ok :-)
[09:41:24] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): its all a new concept
[09:41:31] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): now the next HUD I call the MasterPiece will stitch the output from this HUD together into one dance. all the middle pieces together with 1 beginning and one end
[09:42:02] Nottoo Wise: fitting it into existing huds would be great
[09:42:17] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes this hud can now be called from Huddles. it has a channel so you can experiment
[09:42:27] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): no promises
[09:42:27] Nottoo Wise: hahahaah
[09:42:31] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): but you can play
[09:42:31] Nottoo Wise: ok
[09:42:34] Nottoo Wise: let me look at it
[09:42:37] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): sure, have fun
[09:42:46] Nottoo Wise: i love the innovation
[09:42:50] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): there is a channel in the notecard
[09:42:52] Nottoo Wise: ty for making it and letting me see it
[09:42:57] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): my pleasure of course !!!!!!!
[09:43:49] Nottoo Wise: may i quote from this conversation in the blog piece i write
[09:44:02] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[09:44:06] Nottoo Wise: :-))
[09:44:55] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): any questions
[09:45:00] Nottoo Wise: i think people will like it especially when u make it more versatile
[09:45:01] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): give me a call
[09:45:10] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): well so far I think people are avoiding it because it doesn't stitch yet
[09:45:27] Nottoo Wise: but just demonstrating the concept is the breakthru
[09:45:45] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes this is a new way of thinking about dance because the next part will have some restrictions. the general algorithm says that you take all the dances that you want to select parts from say 10 dances  and 10 parts,  1 from each dance
[09:46:41] Nottoo Wise: yes
[09:47:15] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): well the smaller the difference between sequential dances...the more time you have to select a dance part. example, say just 2 dances, 2 parts
[09:47:52] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): if dance 1 is 30 seconds and dance 2 is 25 seconds, the difference is 5 seconds. so the 2nd dance can not have its piece start any sooner than 5 seconds in to it. so what I will do have the hud tell you how soon you can choose
[09:48:47] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): bottom line is you can always pick one *must have*  piece of a song. the rest will depend on neighboring pieces and dancelengths. so it wll kind of tell you...these are your choices...
[09:50:09] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): now if you shuffle the order of dances..then it could change how far in you can start, so the closer dances are in length then the more dance-segment there is to choose from
[09:50:48] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): thats a quick and dirty explanation of the caveats. also there will always be a sub-second glitch at the beginning and the other caveat is that say you have a 3 minute dance composed of say 10 pieces or 15 pieces.it appears that you will have to actually start your sequence about 3 minutes ahead of when you want to actually see the dance start. so imagine being offstage and actually starting your piece 3 minutes ahead
[09:52:43] Nottoo Wise: well that would be possible for a video or a show
[09:52:53] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes you are in a waiting pose
[09:52:54] Nottoo Wise: but not for a club dance when u dont know the music that is coming
[09:53:20] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes not good for clubs or adhoc dancing....as in freestyling
[09:53:26] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): not thought that far ahead
[09:53:31] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): this is in its infancy
[09:53:58] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): its taken me 3 months to figure the algorithm to stitch the parts together
[09:53:58] Nottoo Wise: well it's abreakthrough
[09:54:01] Nottoo Wise: :-))
[09:54:05] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes a new way of thinking
[09:54:24] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): and maybe your database can have extra columns thatcould facilitate its use
[09:54:43] Nottoo Wise: for example if there is an unusual move we could identify the time in the loop where it occurs
[09:55:06] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[09:55:45] Nottoo Wise: hahaha if we could then move the avatar when the switch occurs
[09:55:57] Nottoo Wise: and orient the avatar properly you could in theory use any part of a dance. wow that would really be complex
[09:56:39] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): its already very complex but I will hide that complexity in the next upcoming hud
[09:56:47] Nottoo Wise: ok
[09:56:51] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): try and make it friendly and
[10:12:43] Nottoo Wise: i love it
[10:12:41] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): sure
[10:12:39] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): great feedback
[10:12:38] Nottoo Wise: ty for showing me how it works
[10:12:32] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): was a great conversation
[10:12:31] Nottoo Wise: ok yummy
[10:12:26] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): ok I will let you "play"
[10:12:01] Nottoo Wise: hahahaah u should think about the market bigger than dancing in SL. sex the same applies there
[10:11:55] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): I guess you could stitch parts of sexual animations together..i hadnt  thought of that
[10:11:44] Nottoo Wise: :-))
[10:11:42] Nottoo Wise: well this is exciting
[10:11:12] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes I see that evolving as well
[10:10:30] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): this is a step towards more granular selectivity
[10:10:10] Nottoo Wise: but i can see the vision u r saying
[10:10:08] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes its an evolution  because you can get a system for 300 USD and all you need are 3 cameras and a computer and soon people who can dance in RL will be doing their own MOCAP
[10:10:02] Nottoo Wise: so its a lot of steps
[10:09:48] Nottoo Wise:  last week when i looked at the 2004 video that won the best award  i could see the beginning of what we have now
[10:09:14] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): the future (crossing fingers) will be choosing dance parts
[10:08:56] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): nowadays you choose the dances to put together
[10:08:31] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[10:08:30] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): who you can be
[10:08:28] Nottoo Wise: yes i love that part of dancing
[10:08:16] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): fun creating and discovering
[10:08:14] Nottoo Wise: exactly
[10:08:12] Nottoo Wise: yes
[10:08:05] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes well the idea is to take drudgery out and make it about creativity
[10:07:40] Nottoo Wise: and its fun
[10:07:38] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): you will REALLY start to see a choreos style come out
[10:07:37] Nottoo Wise: we r all becoming techie geeks
[10:07:29] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): more unique
[10:07:27] Nottoo Wise: hahaha
[10:07:26] Nottoo Wise: :-))
[10:07:12] Nottoo Wise: it would make choreograhy more complex but the results could be much better
[10:07:09] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): rather than try and figure out the timings and which dance and get it and just dance to it
[10:06:57] Nottoo Wise: yes i understand
[10:06:50] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): I would rather pay a choreo
[10:06:47] Nottoo Wise: yes
[10:06:44] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): and time consuming creations
[10:06:39] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[10:06:38] Nottoo Wise: where it comes from it would be difficult to know the inserted part
[10:06:23] Nottoo Wise: yes i see that
[10:06:11] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes choreos could now sell
[10:06:01] Nottoo Wise: if they wanted to sell their creations so choreographers could benefit
[10:05:48] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): would be like the notecards you use for sequences now
[10:05:35] Nottoo Wise: oh ok
[10:05:26] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): don't have a name for it but
[10:05:21] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): I would pay you for the no-copy/no-trans/no-mod formula card
[10:04:48] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): and want it
[10:04:46] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): I would see your cool new dance
[10:04:34] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[10:04:32] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): assembly
[10:04:29] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): stitched pieces of dances together and your
[10:04:26] Nottoo Wise: yes assembled from whole dances and parts of dances
[10:04:06] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): could now make MasterPieces
[10:03:48] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): someone like yourself who makes sequences now
[10:03:31] Nottoo Wise: how would non dance makers benefit
[10:03:27] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): lets say
[10:03:23] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): well
[10:03:17] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): a total
[10:03:15] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): would know that what they are seeing is
[10:03:13] Nottoo Wise: i dont understand the idea u just said
[10:03:10] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): the audiences would be more entertained because they
[10:03:01] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): so could be a win-win for everyone
[10:02:52] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): MasterPiece work
[10:02:46] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): people would have to buy the dances they don't have to make the
[10:02:37] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): help dance-sellers sell more dances because
[10:02:27] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): and this would also
[10:02:26] Nottoo Wise: how is that?
[10:02:23] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): to create piece-patterns and sell them
[10:02:09] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): could open up new markets for non-dance-makers
[10:01:57] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): in fact it
[10:01:36] Lat Lovenkraft: you won't have to settle for or playing through the beginning when you really don't like the beginning
[10:01:14] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): and choose only the pieces you want without compromise
[10:01:03] Nottoo Wise: :-)
[10:01:02] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): examine the inner parts
[10:01:01] Nottoo Wise: yes
[10:00:56] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): now you can look at all of your dances in a whole new light
[10:00:45] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[10:00:42] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): you want like a 45 minute routine
[10:00:40] Nottoo Wise: its like having a bunch of new dances
[10:00:36] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): UNLESS
[10:00:34] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): in fact I don't see any reason
[10:00:32] Nottoo Wise: yes thats the exciting part
[10:00:27] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): but DONT think about mixing the 2
[10:00:21] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): stitch a new dance routine from several pieces
[10:00:09] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): OR
[10:00:08] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): sequence as you do now
[09:59:58] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): I would say ...decide whether you want to
[09:59:41] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes
[09:59:39] Nottoo Wise: and videos
[09:59:38] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): 3-minute songs
[09:59:31] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes for shows
[09:59:28] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): will be special purpose for 'piece-stitching'
[09:59:26] Nottoo Wise: yes it would be for shows
[09:59:14] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): yes but geared towards performance
[09:59:12] Nottoo Wise: is this something u could implement as part of an exisitng HUD
fun to create with like the barre or huddles? like an addon especially on HUDs as good as the barre or even the huddles
[09:58:51] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): my gut says it will be messy and kludgy
[09:58:48] Nottoo Wise: but that presents a big time requirement to build a new HUD
[09:58:36] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): in a manner acceptable to the dancers
[09:58:34] Nottoo Wise: sure
[09:58:22] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): because I just don't feel a warm-fuzzy of its practical ability to interact with other huds
[09:57:55] Yummy (lat.lovenkraft): this hud have sequencing built into it
Well the conversation continued, but I think you get the flavor of how dancing may be changing in the future. At one time I thought we were nearing the end of the technology advances in SL dancing. Now, I am beginning to think we are just starting.

I'm a geek, but wow the moves I can make.

xxx
Nottoo

2 comments:

  1. Interesting idea, not really new. I have seen Rachael doing this with her poetry of dance hud about a year ago. I think she has the API's in Barre that are capable in dealing with this. You may also want to find out if you are reinventing the wheel. She may have this in the new version she is working on.

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